From: Deniz Akkus Kanca (deniz@arayan.com)
Date: Wed 27 Nov 2002 - 07:40:10 EET
Selam,
Bu ileti daha önce linux-ileri listesine gönderilmiş fakat çıt çıkmamıştır.
X'deki Türkçe klavye altyapısından dolayı her sürümde Türkçe klavyeyi
çalıştırmak için farklı şeyler yapmak zorunda kalıyoruz. Aşağıdaki duyuru,
kalıcı çözüm için bir şeyler yapma fırsatıdır.
XFree 4.0.3, CVS'de dondurulmuştur. Bu sürüm içerisinde yeni bir klavye
altyapısı, ve bu klavye altyapısının içerisinde yeni (ve doğru çalıştığı
düşünülen) Türkçe klavye yer almaktadır. Bu klavye Nilgün Belma Bugüner
tarafından hazırlanarak XFree'ye gönderilmiştir.
X'in CVS'de dondurulması, bunu CVS'den çekerek deneme, ve problemler var ise
bildirme sürecine girilmesi demektir. Bu zamanda X'e doğru geri beslemede
bulunmak, *bütün* Linux dağıtımlarında Türkçe klavyenin nasıl çalışacağını
etkileyecektir. X'in neredeyse yılda bir defa yeni sürüme girdiği
düşünülürse, bu zamanın atlanması, olası problemlerin uzun zaman devam etmesi
anlamına gelecektir.
CVS'den XFree86'yı çekip Türkçe klavyeyi deneyecek olan gönüllüler olacağını
ümit ediyorum.
Esen kalın,
Deniz
---------- Aktarılan İleti ----------
Subject: Re: Making multi-layout the default (was Re: [I18n]Farsi Keyboard
Layout)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 20:45:20 -0500
From: David Dawes <dawes@XFree86.Org>
To: i18n@XFree86.Org
On Wed, Nov 13, 2002 at 07:40:23PM +0600, Ivan Pascal wrote:
>> The feature freeze for XFree86 4.3.0 has just been announced (30 Nov
>> 2002). I'm hoping that as many maps as possible will be converted to
>> the multi-layout format in time for this release. Ideally I'd like to
>> consider the layouts that aren't multi-layout friendly to be deprecated,
>> and I'm not planning to accept further changes to them.
>>
>> Ivan, is there anything else you think needs to be done here?
>
> Ideally it need some clean up especialy latin-based layouts.
>
> As I already wrote I made new maps for all (almost all) maps I found
>in the symbols directory.
> With the 'non latin' maps (such as Greek, Cyrillic, Arabic, etc.) there
>are not problems. In such maps the national layout located in the second
>group and in many cases these maps even don't touch the underlayind layout.
> But the 'latin based' maps actually are combinations of a 'basic' layout
>en_US and the national layout map itself.
> Since I don't know all keyboard layouts in the world I simply loaded them
>in turn into server (using XKbLayout option) and got the resulting maps.
>
> First of all it seems to me that some symbols are redundand.
> Looking through the maps I noticed that there are four group of latin
>maps (such as Slavic, Northen Europe, Central Europe, etc.) which have
>very similar layouts and differences between maps in the same group are
>unsufficient. Therefore I think using of one 'basic map' for all of them
>might bring some unneeded symbols in some maps.
>
> Also I found differences which don't seems me national specific ones.
>For example, most of maps defines the Space key as key with one symbol
> 'space'. But there are maps where that key also has a 'nobreakspace' symbol
> (selectable with some modifier). Or another example is an EuroSign. Some
> maps include it but others don't. In most maps where it exists it placed
> on the 'e' key but there are map(s) where where it shares place with the
> dollar sign. And more funny thing that there are many maps wher the same
> key has a 'cent' symbol and not less maps where it stands alone (in his
> level I mean).
>
> As I wrote before I left the existent maps untoched and moved new maps in
>the separate derectory. I understand it is a hell for map maintainers but
>I'd like to expalin my reasons.
> There is not problem to replace all old maps with new ones now. But the
>new maps (latin based namely) have a significant difference. If in the
>existent maps some additional symbols (dead keys and accented letters) are
>in the second 'xkb group' in all new maps I needed move them in additional
>'shift levels'.
> The main disadvantage of this solution is that these shift levels are
>invisible for an xmodmap and for applications which use Xlib without an XKB
>support. (In case both sides use XKB only it works well.)
>And also I'm not sure about how these symbols in new place depend on other
>modifiers (I mean Shift, Lock an so on).
>
> Therefore I'd like to ask all who use these maps to test new maps before
>get rid of old ones. Although the modified xkb library loads the old map
>if the layout is specified alone in the XkbLayout option there is a simple
>trick which allows to load any new map alone.
> If you specify layout as
>Option "XkbLayout" "us"
>the old map will be loaded, but the string
>Option "XkbLayout" "us,"
>makes server load the new map but without any additional layouts.
OK, it's clear from this and other reponses that there's still a lot of
open issues, many of which are definitely beyond the scope of 4.3.0 and
are things we should try to solve for a later release.
Would it be reasonable to change the default to the new maps (and provide
a way of forcing the old ones) for the next few weeks, so that the new
ones can get more exposure? We can then decide at that time whether to
change the default back to the old maps before for the release. With this
method we'd keep the old ones around unless we are confident by 30 Nov
that we can replace them completely with the new ones.
To summarise a timetable:
- Change the default to the new maps now, so more people will be exposed
to them.
- No major structural change (like removing old maps) after 30 November
- Changes accepted to maps until ~mid December
- Choose which are the default (for Option "XkbLayout" "us") by
~mid December.
- Come up with a plan to address the other issues after 4.3.0.
Comments?
David
-- David Dawes Release Engineer/Architect The XFree86 Project www.XFree86.org/~dawes _______________________________________________ I18n mailing list I18n@XFree86.Org http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/i18n-------------------------------------------------------
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